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Nelly Bryce's avatar

I really enjoyed that. And I’m partial to agree with your daughter, who I think sums things up perfectly. I too noticed and hovered on that point by Simon Armitage. I felt it a little restrictive. But I also wondered if it simply came from a deep desire to protect a genre he clearly loves. Protect from what though, not sure. Great post x

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Tamsin šŸ‚'s avatar

I’m fairly certain what I’m feeling is almost trauma related. Having had so many older white males tell me my work can’t be poetry, lyrics, art etc because I’m not exactly following some seemingly arbitrary rule, starting with my father and all the way up to my college writing professors who tended to love a draft tell me how to improve it, and when I did rip it to shreds and deny suggesting those improvements they now hated. Add in the dyslexia (with memory issues as to how to do a lot of these classical forms and no internet to look things up - cos I’m ancient), PDA profile on my autism where I hate anyone telling me what to do, and you have a visceral guttural reaction where when someone, especially a man, tells me you can’t do something and I will bloody prove it can be done! And often have.

So I’m very sure Simon Armitage is right in HIS way and view, but for me it’s just one view and one way, and much as I appreciate his expertise and experience I’m just not ready or able to accept it’s the ONLY view or way. The world moves on. Change happens. We either accept it or rail against it, but it’s still always moving forward.

I don’t think it’s his view that’s so off for me, it’s the finality. The inflexibility. Definitely relating back to childhood where I wasn’t allowed to hold a different view to my father and would be subject to a long haranguing if I dared to think anything different than his view. And of course, the PDA meant that there was no way I’d change my mind then just because a man told me to. So as I say trauma related I feel. No offence meant to Simon Armitage or others than think the same way. (But I still think he’s wrong 🤪)

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Tamsin šŸ‚'s avatar

She a bit intelligent my lass, not sure where it comes from cos she’s way more than I or dad. Glad you enjoyed it

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Lisa O'Hare's avatar

Simon Armitage also has written lyrics and he writes about his very specific views in his collection of lyric writing. It’s a fascinating worm hole.

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Nelly Bryce's avatar

I could lose myself in this for a good while 🤣

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Lisa Bolin 🌸's avatar

Some lyrics are poetry. I write poetry and I’ve written lyrics and the process for me is different. The lyrics interact with music. They need to work together. For me poetry, even in forms with strict rules, uses a different approach.

I’ve taught writing & analysis of poems and have used lyrics as examples especially for kids who find poetry scary.

And a big ā€œFluck offā€ šŸ–•šŸ¼to all those who said you can’t write poetry.

šŸ’–šŸ’–

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šŸµšŸµ's avatar

I have heard before the definition of poetry as "anything that isn't prose" and while I expect that's technically true, the context and nuance aislin's words provide certainly feels like a more useful way to understand things.

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